wordplay | (no subject)

A friend and I were having a conversation about the expectations of friends and how we're supposed to manage them. We were talking about things that friends had done recently that had really kind of disappointed us, things that we thought were beneath them. I said, well, I probably shouldn't have said a single word about that, because it's not really my JOB to tell people what I think about everything. And then she said, yeah, no, it's really not, and told me a story about how she had been really disappointed in a friend and somebody said, well, no - you can't be disappointed, because you're not responsible for her behavior.

And I'm really not sure. I get proud for friends, people who I watch struggle and who I KNOW have had to work so hard, and by the logic of no-responsibility I'm not supposed to feel that, either. And I really believe in the regulatory power of the social network, the little groups that we build around us to help shape our visions of ourselves and our expectations for our lives. I think it's nice to have people have expectations of us. So few of us are part of church families or the kind of extended social networks that model tribal relationships; few of us are near our extended families. That kind of freedom is so, well, freeing but I do wonder if we're happier (as the social creatures humans are, even those of us who are strongly introverted) if we have more people pulling at us, giving us expectations and parameters. It doesn't FEEL true (I spend a portion of my life feeling like people are chipping away at my autonomy and trying not to resent the people I love - it's not pretty, I know, but there you are) but I wonder if it is, anyway. Do we have some kind of ownership in our friends' lives, a kind of investment in the people they are?

What do you think?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I try to behave because of the people around me. I can think of a few instances when I haven't done something because (says my brain) Simon would be disappointed.

I guess you have as much ownership as you're willing to give people. I don't want people to be disappointed in me, so I try to behave in a way that is at least passable, if not always in a way you can be proud of.

I know what I take pride in having done and what makes me feel bad about myself. I want my friends to be able to stand up and say "Yes, I did well there." and if they don't, I want to be able to say it about them. I don't like condemning the behaviour of a friend and thinking that someone I love isn't worthy of it. It does lessen you if the people you love aren't worthy of your respect, you owe it to your friends not to cheapen them like that.

*has Opinions*

So, wait, this last bit

I don't like condemning the behaviour of a friend and thinking that someone I love isn't worthy of it. It does lessen you if the people you love aren't worthy of your respect, you owe it to your friends not to cheapen them like that.

Do you mean there that it lessens me if I am sometimes disappointed in actions that my friends take, or that it lessens me if I am not willing to hold their actions up to that kind of standard of judgment?

No. I mean that if you nail your colours to someone who then acts in a way that diminishes them in the eyes of others, it reflects on you. As a friend, I think you have an obligation to consider this in your actions. I think you also have a right to expect your friends to consider it.

Gah! Let's try again and I'll try not to sound like a judgemental arsehole.

There are different types of friend. The ones we like and the ones we love. The tendency with the ones we love is to invest a lot of time, emotion and trust in them. We place large amounts of our lives in their hands. We recommend them to other friends as people, we publicly state our support for them and like for them and help them if we can.

With this type of friend, after you have put all that into them, you link yourself to them, both personally and in everyone else's mind. If they act in a way that you cannot condone, you have to publically condemn them and probably remove your friendship or you are tarred with the same brush.

When your own moral compass does not prevent you acting in a certain way, it is possible that the way it will reflect on your friends might, nay, should.

Obviously you should act as your conscience dictates, but you have to be able to justify yourself to at least your own, if not your friends satisfaction, otherwise you have callously and selfishly hurt the people that care about you.