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jlh and I got into a conversation about it and the whole "take out an ad" strategy to let the money people and the advertisers know who they were losing and, as usual, she had some dead informative things to say. I always learn new stuff from her about media and advertising, b/c this was her world for so long and I find so much of it counter-intuitive until she breaks it down for me. Under the cut is a chat transcript that's worth reading if you can't figure out how we became Stargate Geezers.
Carrie: so, what I need to know is: is there anything that DOES matter?
Clio: well, there are two things, and then you can decide if there's anything in them.
When people talk about taking a show younger, what happens during the run of a show is that the majority of the people who are watching it at the end were watching it at the start
so most shows age during the course of their run just because the people who watch it get older
this is what happened to Buffy, and why the WB felt that they could afford to cancel it and let it go to UPN
Clio: thing two is that the thing that fandom women have against them
and let's say for the sake of argument that fandom women are like, 25-44, married, working, relatively upscale.
purchasers for the household, all that shit
the problem is that you can reach them on like, E!. for a lot less money than on Sci-Fi, for a lot of complicated reasons
Carrie: why do they not want my money, Clio?
I have good money! we spend a lot of money on media and products!
Clio: so it isn't that they don't want your money
it's that I can find you someplace else, for cheaper
Carrie: oh, that's insidious
(although they're not finding me on E!)
Clio: and not just E!
but also print
If I were trying to reach you,
I would not be buying television
I'd be running ads online, and in like the new yorker and stuff
Carrie: yeah, OK, that makes sense
so how does that shape SciFi's marketing?
Clio: Well, Sci Fi wants men
and the reason they want men
is that other than espn, there isn't a lot of men to be reached
Carrie: but they keep SAYING they want women. are they lying?
Clio: they might want rather young women
they don't want you know, P&G women, because those women all watch like, lifetime and E and style and let's talk about more cliches
and daytime, and all that shit is really cheap
or, they've given up on getting enough women
which they might have
esp as universal is launching a sports channel
if you look at their portfolio, they need a young male channel
viacom has one, disney has one, fox has one, and universal really doesn't
Carrie: ok, see, THAT'S dead useful information
Clio: anyway, so the thing about building a plan, like, to build a plan to reach upscale types
you just don't even bother with TV
they don't watch enough TV to make it all worth it
unless you're a financial or someone else who can use the news nets
or you're a car
because car companies are addicted to sight-sound-motion
Carrie: right
Clio: and fandom chicks?
I mean, I'd make a plan where I'd buy like, tons of internet
if I actually wanted to find you
io9.com and shit
good print. most upscale women are reading vogue anyway.
or bon app, or new yorker, or some conde nast magazine
the problem always with media
is that it's about numbers
it's about what most people are doing
and the cost of finding the few people who you don't have is prohibitive
it's a truism that when we report our numbers, which are based on all these weird algorithms and curves and stuff I don't understand
we never report a reach of more than 95%
because we're like, you can't reach everyone, you just can't—and even those numbers, most people don't get, most people are happy with 75% or so
and what do you buy, that no one else is buying?
it isn't about how you have money, it's about whether you have money and you're spending it on stuff that no one else is spending
so that you make up most of a target
so the reason that TV shows keep getting developed for men, is that women watch a fucking lot of tv
no one needs to find them
TV shows get developed for young people, because older people watch a fucking lot of tv
over 55? it's insane. I can just buy a bunch of crappy day cable and reach almost all of hte over 55s in the country.
it's rough because like, black radio stations are in the same bind
unless they can show that their audience is more likely to buy something, and that the cost is cheaper, it's hard for them to get on like, a volvo plan
coca cola, sure
**************
Discuss. Alternatively, rend garments. It all makes sense laid out like that, doesn't it? And it really pisses me off.
At some point I'll give you my GenX whining on this and how frustrating it is to be an active, interested consumer of media who finds that nothing is being produced or marketed for you because you're a difficult market AND a small one. Or, hell, enough of you are GenX counterparts - you can write the whining yourself.
***
While I'm c&p-ing chat transcripts, here's what I said to Clio about my current thinking on the cancellation.
Clio: so
SGA
Carrie: yeah
I have issues
Clio: tell me your issues
Carrie: well
I mean, look
this show is deeply flawed
to a degree it's a relief to be rid of it
it's a troubled show and, fucked up gender and racial politics aside, they screwed up the moral balance of the universe in like s2 and could never get it back
so, you know, to a certain extent, it's a relief to wipe the slate clean
just, let it go
on the other hand, this last episode was REALLY GOOD
like, they're FINALLY figuring out how to write this show
it's not perfect, but it was emotionally consistent and had character moments
(it was also v. McSheppy, so that's part of it - they've figured out the fanservice balance and you bet your ass they know we're here)
and I am going to miss The Team
I'm going to miss them so terribly
and I'm FURIOUS that SciFi is so fucked up
like, get a grip already, NBC
find a demographic and STICK WITH IT already
and, of course, people are pissed about the new show
which is being called Stargate: 90210
and Patty is making t-shirts for a bunch of people going to D*C that say Stargate: Geezer b/c she's awesome that way
and also b/c, srsly
so
yeah
issues
:D
jlh and I got into a conversation about it and the whole "take out an ad" strategy to let the money people and the advertisers know who they were losing and, as usual, she had some dead informative things to say. I always learn new stuff from her about media and advertising, b/c this was her world for so long and I find so much of it counter-intuitive until she breaks it down for me. Under the cut is a chat transcript that's worth reading if you can't figure out how we became Stargate Geezers.Carrie: so, what I need to know is: is there anything that DOES matter?
Clio: well, there are two things, and then you can decide if there's anything in them.
When people talk about taking a show younger, what happens during the run of a show is that the majority of the people who are watching it at the end were watching it at the start
so most shows age during the course of their run just because the people who watch it get older
this is what happened to Buffy, and why the WB felt that they could afford to cancel it and let it go to UPN
Clio: thing two is that the thing that fandom women have against them
and let's say for the sake of argument that fandom women are like, 25-44, married, working, relatively upscale.
purchasers for the household, all that shit
the problem is that you can reach them on like, E!. for a lot less money than on Sci-Fi, for a lot of complicated reasons
Carrie: why do they not want my money, Clio?
I have good money! we spend a lot of money on media and products!
Clio: so it isn't that they don't want your money
it's that I can find you someplace else, for cheaper
Carrie: oh, that's insidious
(although they're not finding me on E!)
Clio: and not just E!
but also print
If I were trying to reach you,
I would not be buying television
I'd be running ads online, and in like the new yorker and stuff
Carrie: yeah, OK, that makes sense
so how does that shape SciFi's marketing?
Clio: Well, Sci Fi wants men
and the reason they want men
is that other than espn, there isn't a lot of men to be reached
Carrie: but they keep SAYING they want women. are they lying?
Clio: they might want rather young women
they don't want you know, P&G women, because those women all watch like, lifetime and E and style and let's talk about more cliches
and daytime, and all that shit is really cheap
or, they've given up on getting enough women
which they might have
esp as universal is launching a sports channel
if you look at their portfolio, they need a young male channel
viacom has one, disney has one, fox has one, and universal really doesn't
Carrie: ok, see, THAT'S dead useful information
Clio: anyway, so the thing about building a plan, like, to build a plan to reach upscale types
you just don't even bother with TV
they don't watch enough TV to make it all worth it
unless you're a financial or someone else who can use the news nets
or you're a car
because car companies are addicted to sight-sound-motion
Carrie: right
Clio: and fandom chicks?
I mean, I'd make a plan where I'd buy like, tons of internet
if I actually wanted to find you
io9.com and shit
good print. most upscale women are reading vogue anyway.
or bon app, or new yorker, or some conde nast magazine
the problem always with media
is that it's about numbers
it's about what most people are doing
and the cost of finding the few people who you don't have is prohibitive
it's a truism that when we report our numbers, which are based on all these weird algorithms and curves and stuff I don't understand
we never report a reach of more than 95%
because we're like, you can't reach everyone, you just can't—and even those numbers, most people don't get, most people are happy with 75% or so
and what do you buy, that no one else is buying?
it isn't about how you have money, it's about whether you have money and you're spending it on stuff that no one else is spending
so that you make up most of a target
so the reason that TV shows keep getting developed for men, is that women watch a fucking lot of tv
no one needs to find them
TV shows get developed for young people, because older people watch a fucking lot of tv
over 55? it's insane. I can just buy a bunch of crappy day cable and reach almost all of hte over 55s in the country.
it's rough because like, black radio stations are in the same bind
unless they can show that their audience is more likely to buy something, and that the cost is cheaper, it's hard for them to get on like, a volvo plan
coca cola, sure
**************
Discuss. Alternatively, rend garments. It all makes sense laid out like that, doesn't it? And it really pisses me off.
At some point I'll give you my GenX whining on this and how frustrating it is to be an active, interested consumer of media who finds that nothing is being produced or marketed for you because you're a difficult market AND a small one. Or, hell, enough of you are GenX counterparts - you can write the whining yourself.
***
While I'm c&p-ing chat transcripts, here's what I said to Clio about my current thinking on the cancellation.
Clio: so
SGA
Carrie: yeah
I have issues
Clio: tell me your issues
Carrie: well
I mean, look
this show is deeply flawed
to a degree it's a relief to be rid of it
it's a troubled show and, fucked up gender and racial politics aside, they screwed up the moral balance of the universe in like s2 and could never get it back
so, you know, to a certain extent, it's a relief to wipe the slate clean
just, let it go
on the other hand, this last episode was REALLY GOOD
like, they're FINALLY figuring out how to write this show
it's not perfect, but it was emotionally consistent and had character moments
(it was also v. McSheppy, so that's part of it - they've figured out the fanservice balance and you bet your ass they know we're here)
and I am going to miss The Team
I'm going to miss them so terribly
and I'm FURIOUS that SciFi is so fucked up
like, get a grip already, NBC
find a demographic and STICK WITH IT already
and, of course, people are pissed about the new show
which is being called Stargate: 90210
and Patty is making t-shirts for a bunch of people going to D*C that say Stargate: Geezer b/c she's awesome that way
and also b/c, srsly
so
yeah
issues
:D
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no subject
on 2008-08-26 03:06 am (UTC)It's a shame because this week's was so good, but then SGA's always been kind of a rollercoaster - one week, FANTASTIC, the next, are you kidding me?
But it's just amazing how many times Sci Fi has pulled this kind of thing with shows. This should be a network we can love, but instead, after this TNG episode I'm watching, there's wrestling.
no subject
on 2008-08-26 03:23 am (UTC)That is BENT. (And not in the good way.)
Holy shit.
Okay if I link to this post?
no subject
on 2008-08-26 03:30 am (UTC)There is a book that this reminds me of called Why TV Is Not Our Fault that traces the development of American television programming. Basically, it got hijacked by advertising very early - this is something that was really emphasized in my TV in American culture class this summer but, obviously, I'm still not really GETTING IT. The upshot, though, is that I think we might do better by ourselves to not forget that television is as much or more about finding a matrix in which to advertise than it is about selling advertisement to support an artistic endeavor. It's a thing that fans probably have to engage with, which SUCKS, IMO.
no subject
on 2008-08-26 03:27 am (UTC)no subject
on 2008-08-26 03:27 am (UTC)What I guess I find frustrating is that I AM the really young women SciFi wants to reach (maybe? I don't have a ton of money but I DO blow what I have on worthless crap they peddle on TV) but, uh, good job, guys.
At some point I'll give you my GenX whining on this and how frustrating it is to be an active, interested consumer of media who finds that nothing is being produced or marketed for you because you're a difficult market AND a small one.
Oh, my friend, let me tell you about being a member of Gen Y or whatever the fuck we're called and NOT being either indie and/or into The Hills, and how therefore I apparently do not exist.
no subject
on 2008-08-26 11:53 pm (UTC)There also seems to be a lack of need for sci-fi viewers... I don't know why that is.
no subject
on 2008-08-26 03:46 am (UTC)no subject
on 2008-08-26 03:48 am (UTC)no subject
on 2008-08-26 03:53 am (UTC)no one needs to find them
TV shows get developed for young people, because older people watch a fucking lot of tv
over 55? it's insane. I can just buy a bunch of crappy day cable and reach almost all of hte over 55s in the country.
I found this especially interesting, because I'm both female and over 55 but I watch almost no TV. I had no idea I was so out of sync with my peers. I guess that means there's pretty much nothing I can do to influence the networks to toss something my way, which is incredibly depressing. And offensive.
Also, your issues with SGA are my issues with SGA.
no subject
on 2008-08-26 12:55 pm (UTC)Also, what was on John's shirt? Pandas?
Also, I like, apparently do nothing that an upscale woman in my age group should. I watch none of the channels, read none of the magazines, etc. That's a little scary. Ok wait, I do have the occasional secret binge on lifetime movies, but that's seriously it.
I don't have some of the issues with the show you do. For example the gender representation I just think seems cracked because we so often see it through the perspective of people in the show who ARE cracked, like, ya know, Rodney :)
You know what cracks me up about the new 'younger demographic' thing is that they TOTALLY did a parody of that in SG1, and I just really don't think you should be allowed to go and, you know, really do things that you parodied that hard.